[Websg Meetup] Report: An accessible talking customer comment form for for children: A specimen accessible Flash

Sun Mar 18 22:56:53 EDT 2007

In the spirit of discussing regarding accessible Flash, here is an
article covering how flash can detect the presence of a screen reader.

http://www.webaim.org/techniques/flash/techniques.php

There are ongoing attempts to make Flash a lot more accessible. I do
not want to be a wet blanket, flash is meant to be a visually and
interactive-driven, there are bound to be challenges in making the
content accessible via JAWS or any other screen readers. This area is
still very much in an infancy stage.

Just my 2cents,
Ronnie

> On 3/18/07, draco <kodeiko at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Divya for correcting me on this one. I did a little test
> > with JAWS 8.0 and had no luck whatsoever with (on-click) generated
> > contents with ajax. Seems like there isn't a way to notify the screen
> > readers of on-screen changes just yet; tried a little focus() trick
> > but no, no luck again.
> >
> > Using JSON:
> >
> > Generated text taking place on window.onload seems to produce
> > inconsistent results. JSON objects from twitter retrieved to be listed
> > in a unordered list sometimes get read out, and sometimes it's the
> > hidden text, whichever loads first when JAWS starts reading.
> >
> > Changing the onload behavior to only retrieving onclick returns worse
> > result. JAWS remains  unnotified of screen changes as expected.
> >
> > (http://draco.devsync.net/lab/jscript/multiple-twits/ YMMV)
> >
> > AJAX:
> >
> > I tried using AJAX (yes, xmlhttprequest and xml this time), JAWS would
> > not even read out the list of shout-outs retrieved on window.onload. I
> > couldn't be bothered to try out onclick as I did not have time to play
> > around but this is what I found out in an hour of trial and error in
> > win/firefox 2.0.2. (damn JAWS free 40mins mode though)
> >
> > Granted, these may not be new to some of you but I hope it helps if at
> > all. Well as you can see, I'm still learning. ;-) If there's any
> > relevant information, I'll be looking forward to more.
> >
> > Some articles I found:
> >
> > http://juicystudio.com/article/improving-ajax-applications-for-jaws-users.php
> > http://juicystudio.com/article/making-ajax-work-with-screen-readers.php
> >
> > On 3/18/07, divya manian <divya.manian at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 3/18/07, draco <kodeiko at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > And AJAX-based contents can still be accessible if implemented
> > > properly. (ie: javascript built on top of already accessible web
> > > pages) :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Not really, if you have content that gets generated only when clicked
> > > through javascript - i wonder how that content can be detected by screen
> > > readers. Unless you mean using javascript to hide or
> > > show already existing content on the page
> > > (which wouldnt be ajax).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 3/18/07, Ronnie Liew <ronnieliew at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > As much as I would love to use flash for every development that I
> > do,
> > > > > I have to admit that Flash does have issues with accessibility. I am
> > > > > not an expert with the various criteria for something to be deem
> > > > > accessible but common application (for the disabled) like JAWS
> > screen
> > > > > reader will not be able to read content within Flash. In the same
> > > > > note, AJAX-based content will probably fail too.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 2cents,
> > > > > Ronnie
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/18/07, meetup-request at websg.org < meetup-request at websg.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Send Meetup mailing list submissions to
> > > > > >         meetup at websg.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > > >
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> > > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > > >         meetup-request at websg.org
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> > specific
> > > > > > than "Re: Contents of Meetup digest..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Today's Topics:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    1. Report: An accessible talking customer comment form
> > for
> > > > > >       children: A specimen accessible Flash application (Ivan
> > Chew)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Message: 1
> > > > > > Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:37:56 +0800
> > > > > > From: "Ivan Chew" <ramblinglibrarian at gmail.com>
> > > > > > Subject: [Websg Meetup] Report: An accessible talking customer
> > comment
> > > > > >         form    for children: A specimen accessible Flash
> > application
> > > > > > To: Meetup at websg.org
> > > > > > Message-ID:
> > > > > >         <
> > > da5b01cf0703170837u16e0bac1o4d389af619b69dbf at mail.gmail.com>
> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > Not sure if I've shared this here before. Anyway, it was mentioned
> > > > > > about how Flash isn't Wed Standards Compliant. Some of you might
> > find
> > > > > > this report of use. I'm just looking at the report from the angle
> > of
> > > > > > library services to the disabled. Thought I'd get the "Web
> > Standards"
> > > > > > perspective from the folks here. Thanks
> > > > > > Ivan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > Flash is the most widely available platform for delivering
> > interactive
> > > > > > multimedia content on
> > > > > > the web, and as such has huge potential for creating engaging
> > library
> > > > > > services that can
> > > > > > reach children. Whilst it cannot be ignored as a powerful tool for
> > > > > > reaching target
> > > > > > audiences, it has attracted some criticism for not being an
> > accessible
> > > > > > format for disabled
> > > > > > people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This pilot aimed to put these criticisms and Flash's accessibility
> > > > > > features to the test, by
> > > > > > creating a new children's web service. The aim was to demonstrate
> > a
> > > > > > service that would
> > > > > > be enhanced specifically by using interactive multimedia and have
> > a
> > > > > > real purpose, yet that
> > > > > > would also be accessible to disabled people using their preferred
> > > > > > access technologies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > An animated, talking customer comment form for young children was
> > > > > > chosen. This was
> > > > > > created and initially tested by library development staff. This
> > was
> > > > > > then further assessed
> > > > > > independently with user testing by the Shaw Trust (Kennedy &
> > Broome,
> > > 2006).
> > > > > > Professional testers with a range of different disabilities used
> > the
> > > > > > form with their own
> > > > > > access technologies set up with their usual personal preferences.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Meetup mailing list
> > > > > > Meetup at websg.org
> > > > > > http://websg.org/mailman/listinfo/meetup_websg.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > End of Meetup Digest, Vol 4, Issue 7
> > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Meetup mailing list
> > > > > Meetup at websg.org
> > > > > http://websg.org/mailman/listinfo/meetup_websg.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > > draco
> > > > http://draco.devsync.net/
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Meetup mailing list
> > > > Meetup at websg.org
> > > > http://websg.org/mailman/listinfo/meetup_websg.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Meetup mailing list
> > > Meetup at websg.org
> > > http://websg.org/mailman/listinfo/meetup_websg.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > draco
> > http://draco.devsync.net/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Meetup mailing list
> > Meetup at websg.org
> > http://websg.org/mailman/listinfo/meetup_websg.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Coleman Yee,
> PebbleRoad,
> http://www.pebbleroad.com
> Mobile: +65 9622 7481
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:42:03 +0800
> From: Yuhui <yuhuibc at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Websg Meetup] Report: An accessible talking customer
>         comment form for children: A specimen accessible Flash application
> To: meetup at websg.org
> Message-ID:
>         <6db6d520703180242g4c4c4b1ar5da1b9a4de979a51 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I read something about this topic in various articles previously.
> Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read them. :P
>
> Flash - Adobe is working on accessibility, but don't expect anything overnight.
> AJAX - IBM is working on improving accessibility and will publish its
> findings/documentation. Again, don't expect anything overnight.
>
> So it looks like the heavyweight companies are working on this aspect.
> I expect that Google is also working on AJAX accessibility since they
> use AJAX in all of their apps and they're supposed to "do no evil".
>
> > From: draco <kodeiko at gmail.com>
> > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:51:00 +0800
> >
> > Thank you Divya for correcting me on this one. I did a little test
> > with JAWS 8.0 and had no luck whatsoever with (on-click) generated
> > contents with ajax. Seems like there isn't a way to notify the screen
> > readers of on-screen changes just yet; tried a little focus() trick
> > but no, no luck again.
> >
> > Using JSON:
> >
> > Generated text taking place on window.onload seems to produce
> > inconsistent results. JSON objects from twitter retrieved to be listed
> > in a unordered list sometimes get read out, and sometimes it's the
> > hidden text, whichever loads first when JAWS starts reading.
> >
> > Changing the onload behavior to only retrieving onclick returns worse
> > result. JAWS remains  unnotified of screen changes as expected.
> >
> > (http://draco.devsync.net/lab/jscript/multiple-twits/ YMMV)
> >
> > AJAX:
> >
> > I tried using AJAX (yes, xmlhttprequest and xml this time), JAWS would
> > not even read out the list of shout-outs retrieved on window.onload. I
> > couldn't be bothered to try out onclick as I did not have time to play
> > around but this is what I found out in an hour of trial and error in
> > win/firefox 2.0.2. (damn JAWS free 40mins mode though)
> >
> > Granted, these may not be new to some of you but I hope it helps if at
> > all. Well as you can see, I'm still learning. ;-) If there's any
> > relevant information, I'll be looking forward to more.
> >
> > Some articles I found:
> > http://juicystudio.com/article/improving-ajax-applications-for-jaws-users.php
> > http://juicystudio.com/article/making-ajax-work-with-screen-readers.php
> >
> > On 3/18/07, divya manian <divya.manian at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 3/18/07, draco <kodeiko at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And AJAX-based contents can still be accessible if implemented
> > > > properly. (ie: javascript built on top of already accessible web
> > > > pages) :-)
> > >
> > > Not really, if you have content that gets generated only when clicked
> > > through javascript - i wonder how that content can be detected by screen
> > > readers. Unless you mean using javascript to hide or
> > > show already existing content on the page
> > > (which wouldnt be ajax).
> > >
> > > > On 3/18/07, Ronnie Liew <ronnieliew at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > As much as I would love to use flash for every development that I do,
> > > > > I have to admit that Flash does have issues with accessibility. I am
> > > > > not an expert with the various criteria for something to be deem
> > > > > accessible but common application (for the disabled) like JAWS screen
> > > > > reader will not be able to read content within Flash. In the same
> > > > > note, AJAX-based content will probably fail too.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:37:56 +0800
> > > > > > From: "Ivan Chew" <ramblinglibrarian at gmail.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not sure if I've shared this here before. Anyway, it was mentioned
> > > > > > about how Flash isn't Wed Standards Compliant. Some of you might find
> > > > > > this report of use. I'm just looking at the report from the angle of
> > > > > > library services to the disabled. Thought I'd get the "Web Standards"
> > > > > > perspective from the folks here. Thanks
> [snip]
>
> --
> Yuhui     yuhuibc at gmail.com
> LiveJournal yuhui.livejournal.com
> Blogger yuhuibc.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Meetup at websg.org
> http://websg.org/mailman/listinfo/meetup_websg.org
>
>
> End of Meetup Digest, Vol 4, Issue 9
> ************************************
>